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    PvP Rule Discussion Thread

    Hey guys!

    It's been a long time since we've taken a look at Central's PvP rules and discussed what YOU would like to see changed or added. This thread will allow us to do just that.

    In this thread, I would love to see the community's thoughts and feedback on our current PvP rules. The focus should primarily be on bans and restrictions; however, if you are concerned about a general rule then please speak up. Based on the discussion, I will post a voting poll and the community will vote on any rule changes.

    Thread Guidelines

    • Do not argue. Respectfully disagreeing is fine, but do not let things get nasty. If you argue, I will delete your entire post.
    • Be respectful of one another's opinions. If you are rude, your post will be deleted.
    • This thread will remain open until September 30. Once the thread is closed, a poll thread will be posted where players have the opportunity to vote.


    Let's please keep everything friendly!?!

    For your convenience, click
    HERE to look over our current PvP rules.







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  3. #2
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    Re: PvP Rule Discussion Thread

    I suggest that we allow the middle (5-round) scratch spell buff.



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  5. #3
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    Re: PvP Rule Discussion Thread

    I strongly think we should ban all summons scent pets banners and remove all restrictions on the swashbuckler class.



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  7. #4
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    Re: PvP Rule Discussion Thread

    If Scratch's purge makes it into live realm, I propose that we allow a maximum of only one purge per match.

    I also think that there should be a maximum of only one of Goro or Nausica, not both.
    Stephanie Dawnheart in Wizard101 ⚫ Dandy Stephanie in Pirate101



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  9. #5
    victor's Avatar
       victor is offline Land Lubber
    My Pirate101 Character is a Privateer

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    Re: PvP Rule Discussion Thread

    Ok....Lets be honest here. Most people who play Pirates and do PVP in general see Central and think to themselves "Oh this sounds like a good idea" or "Oh i can finally get better/show my skill through this". However, lets also be honest in establishing that Central rules have never been Great or even Good for that matter. Central rules have always been more in line with favoring the "#Paytowin" mentality in which if you didn't have any of the so called good gear (Moo Robe, Trees, Banner esc. I can go on for a while) you were automatically at a disadvantage as shown as how (No offense to Quentin, just using him to make my point but how Quentin has been able to win 1st place in the couple past tournaments defeating all the good Players that have also participated through using or in a sense abusing this "cheese" that has been allowed through Central rules. Its highly apparent that players feel discouraged by the rules as who would honestly want to face someone that's able to summon 2 sets of top tier minions aka Trees/Scorpions and Terra cotta while having to deal with the Beast Banner boosting their weapon power, finding themselves in red a couple rounds into the match without them really being able to do anything about it.
    So yea allowing all these items in Central was and still is a terrible idea, and its honestly what's been killing my drive in doing matches as honestly its just a pain to deal with, as it really takes no skill in summoning hordes of summons then placing a banner down and just watching them do everything for you.
    Last edited by victor; 09-03-2018 at 03:18 AM.
    Ruthless Bruno Maxwell - (70 Privateer), Galen - (70 Musketeer), Silver Blaze Vane - (70 Swashbuckler), Daring Taylor Davenport - (70 Witchdoctor), Bruno - (70 Buccaneer)




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  11. #6
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    Re: PvP Rule Discussion Thread

    Ah, how naive Esmee, you knew this essay was coming. We all did! *Cracks knuckles* Time to rant.

    Bans & Restrictions

    "Scratch's 50 and 100% buffs are banned."
    Sorry but this should stay the same. I feel a bit of bias from Harry and Quentin for some odd reasons considering their main class. These were put in place due to the nature of simply wanting to avoid turtle strategies. I get it, Quentin. You want them 2k Mournsongs. But it's not just that, we don't want 3k absorbs, 1.5k super bombs that just decide the game on 1 critical. It's just not interesting. My personal belief is we should keep this rule how it is. Mostly with scratch getting even more powers which will make him an even better pick. I'd rather leave this untouched and not risk removing this right before he gets a "buff" then becomes a problem again. This is just a simple 1+1=2 situation. Don't buff the already getting buffed companion who already is causing enough issues.

    "Purge Magic/Black Fog cannot be used simultaneously."
    I think this rule is a bit silly. I think it can be removed. This issue doesn't really happen in Spar. It's more of a ranked strategy. The issue was that you could ensure a 100% Pirate KO with this purge fog strategy in ranked where you can easily cross the board in 2 turns normally to position yourself to purge the pirate. In spar, however, you can avoid this with barricade strategies which are given plenty of time due to the size of the board.

    "Angry Orchards is banned.""Second Wind from Spring Champ."
    I am just going to say my opinion on this one: I think we should either allow any/all Champ weapons and their powers. Or ban them all. Personally, I would like to just have them all banned as it'll make it easier for newer players to jump into central pvp without a seasonal item lock. I think it would be beneficial and encourage a lot more strategic play with newer items that otherwise would be skimmed across due the obvious power creep the Champion weapons (primarily spring and fall) have brought to the game.

    My opinion on what Stephanie commented on restricting the use of both Goronado and Nausica... I am not a big fan of that. I think restrictions should be limited and only put into place when 100% required. One big issue Central had for the longest time and still has on W101C is a large number of rules. Playing central on Wiz is like an entirely different thing from doing ranked. It's a big issue of why the tournaments that once filled 64 to even 128 players in big events now only fill 16-32. Pirates already struggle enough with being more complex in mechanics than Wizard101 for players to get a grasp of it. And we only manage to fill 16 if we're lucky (most of the time still with byes). Goronado and Nausica are strong, definitely. But by no means are they unbeatable. Lots of strategies don't revolve around them. They're staples and should be allowed. People should try to innovate is all. I watched Ninja and Quentin play in Ninja's youtube videos recently. They didn't even all use Goro+Nausica. Goro and Nausica, unlike seasonal champion weapons, anyone can get their hands on. If they don't want to pay for them, then they can step up their game and create strategies without them. Simply going in and limiting something that anyone can get access too without a really good argument seems more like a lack of ability to adapt rather than actually something being unfair or unbalanced. I brought up Champion weapons here because they're similar. Really powerful and in theory anyone can get them. But unlike Goronado or Nausica who can be bought at any point of time by simply pulling out a credit card. Champion weapons are difficult to acquire due to a few factors:

    1. Lack of player base makes it hard to even rank up without immoral methods (boosting).
    2. Seasonal weapons meaning if a new player joins if they don't happen to be able to get (boost) to champion in fall by a lucky chance. They're at a major disadvantage

    With those in mind. I think there is a significant difference in why we should leave the limitations or go all in/pull all out on the restriction to Champion weapons.

    Lvl 65 Witchdoctor Sneaky Jeremy Silver l Musketeer Bloody Jeremy Everhart l SwashBuckler Jeremy Everhart
    Buccaneer Reckless Jeremy Quincy l Privateer ​John Walker






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    Re: PvP Rule Discussion Thread

    Thanks for making this thread Celestial, really appreciate it!

    • "All doubloons are banned"- This should stay. duh.
    • "Scratch's 50% and 100% are banned"- Since Scratch is getting a significant buff in this current update (Purge, Jobu's Kiss, and another melee hit all possibly), I'm hesitant to allow any more of his buffs into play. While I understand witchdoctor is really, really bad in the current pirate meta, giving Scratch too much leeway opens the door for privy and musket to do degenerate things (huge absorbs, heals, and bomb spam). Not going to comment on Scratch any further until we get a few more patches to the current test realm
    • "Purge Magic and Black Fog can't be used simultaneously"- I'd tend to agree with Jeremy on this one, this combo really only goes off in ranked from my experience (I'm a buckler main). Spar boards are too big for it to be a common occurrence. In addition, it's extraordinarily easy to prevent and I've only pulled it off against inexperienced players or (occasionally) more skilled players that miscount purge range. I'd be fine with this rule staying in place, but I don't think it really matters all too much
    • "Angry Orchards is Banned"- This should stay. In any universe where the beastmaster banner is legal, this power is way too strong. Even without the banner, it's still a bit too strong, since the trees critical very frequently (good at offense) and have htl (good at defense).
    • "Second Wind from the Spring Champion Weapon is Banned"- This is probably some of my personal bias sneaking in, but I think this power is on the safe side. It's a good power, but is far from a must-run when it's legal and possible (I'd consider trees to be a must-run for privy, witch, and arguably musket when they're allowed). In addition, all 5 classes benefit equally from it. The burst damage achievable in the current meta makes this heal balanced in my opinion. However, I do somewhat agree that losing to a champion weapon can be disheartening and unfun (given how hard it is to champ legitimately in ranked), so I wouldn't be opposed to restricting champ weapons across the board. On a side note, trees should remain banned no matter what is done with the other 3.
    • "Armada comps can be used if both players agree to it"- These companions are almost 2 years old. Having ran them in pvp for well over a year now, I don't think they're overpowered. They tend to have fewer or worse epics than most other units (6 epics compared to 7-8 for most top tier companions), low movement (4 mvmt and no trained 2x haste moves, compared to the 4 movement, 8 with a charge or 5-7 movement of most other top tier offensive companions), and no long range attacks (surge of technomancy is the biggest, at 5 tiles and the haywire shot is a measly 3 tiles). While their attacks are strong, their range and epic selection balance them out. To be honest, if they were legal, I don't see myself running them outside of maybe 1 matchup. (I'll talk about the musket's epic selection later on, I have a different take there)


    Some responses
    • I think Harry's comment was mostly tongue in cheek. While I'd love this to come true, it's not gonna happen.
    • Not going to play the "what will Scratch look like when test comes to live" game yet, so I'm gonna ignore the first part of Stephanie's comment since commenting would be fruitless right now. As for the second part, I can't disagree with it more. What's so good about these companions when combined? Their movement range and aggression they bring to the table. What companion is universally available for purchase or use, that can restrict movement? Emmett/Exeter. What does spar chamber lack (for the most part) that ranked pvp has? Sight-restricting obstacles. My point is, if you really think these 2 companions are that much of a threat, use Emmett or Exeter. He's guaranteed to prevent at least 1 from rushing early, which gives every class more than enough time to set up since 1 unit rushing alone is a joke. I agree 100% with Jeremy that we shouldn't put unnecessary restrictions in, and this restriction seems unnecessary.
    • I've mostly addressed Jeremy's points already. My initial thoughts to the champ weapon legality issue is to ban fall (just way too strong) and legalize the rest, but I'd rather see them all banned than have them all legal.


    Thoughts on rules that should be added
    • Firstmate's boon- I cannot state this fervently enough: This. Power. Is. Broken. And. Needs. To. Be. Banned. Yesterday. In my opinion, this is the most disgustingly overpowered ability Kingsisle has ever released (OG Blast of dis cord is its only competitor). Privateer is already a top tier class that can do burst damage pretty well (assassin's strikes, zeal combos, buffed companions, crit big guns, etc) all while having the best defenses by far in game. Boon now gives them an unconditional way of buffing one of their unit's damage in the early game, while the drawback is of little effect to them (what privy uses their melee attacks in the early game while they still have multiple units alive?) Couple this with the fact that a grit 2 Nausica can be forted, booned, and then kill any ranged unit with ow/quick draw/true grit from anywhere on the board with her charge, and you have a recipe for disaster. Sure, purge counters this tactic, but they still get 1 round of damage from it, which is honestly all they need to put you too far behind to recover. In addition, it's entirely possible that your pirate might not be in purge range of the Nausica, since you have to keep your units spread out to avoid BoD and Big Guns. And if you are in purge range of Nausica, you just lost most to all the health of one of your units, probably a lesser shield and any other buffs from your pirate, and your purge. What did they lose? 1 fort, their boon, probably a crit buff on Nausica. Nausica probably won't even die unless you have multiple strong offensive units still alive that get decent luck with their chains. Boon makes it way too easy, in my opinion, for privies to win matches that they have no business winning.
    • Blast of Dis cord- Yes, I know. Spread out your units and you won't be affected by this. That's great, and completely true. However, what happens after you rush the privy with your team? They're probably in the corner, or at the very least, on the edge of the battleboard. This means that you have to either not attack with 1-2 of your units or put them in danger of a blast of dis cord should you decide to attack with them all. So let's say you attacked with everything. You killed 2-3 of their companions and yours are at nearly full health. They cast Blast of dis cord and what happens (in a worst case scenario)? Your pirate goes down to half or lower, and your units go down to red or dead. Now that seemingly unwinnable match for the privy is now easily winnable. All they had to do was click 2 buttons (BoD and Done). This might just be me, but I think that's just a tad unskilled. As for the argument that BoD prevents people from all-in rushing privy successfully, y'all have Big Guns, Emmet slows, and probably a barricade. You have enough ways to prevent or punish a rush. If you're a privy that gets ravaged that badly in the early game, you deserve to lose that match. You shouldn't have the opportunity to click a button and increase your chances of winning from 0 to over 50. Yes, most of the time BoD is a glorified Big Guns, but the maximum upside is just too good to allow it to remain legal. My rants are over.
    • Beastmaster Banner- Since trees are banned (and should remain banned), this loses a bit of its brokenness. However, this is still quite strong when paired with scorps and accuracy buffs (namely Battle Zeal). If Scratch is given any fewer restrictions, this banner needs to go. If Scratch remains in his current state, it's probably fine.
    • Overwatch 5- Forgot about this, so editing it in now. Overwatch 5, like the combo of FMB and BoD for privies, make it way too easy for less experienced musketeers to compete with legitimately skilled players. All it takes to beat a melee player as an ow5 user is decent (not even good, just decent) resource management and good gear. Companions like Contessa can be used to time out hides (in addition to the musket's own hides, forts, and absorb). Once they're able to kill the enemy's units (which isn't hard with an agility-buffed Chantal and bombs) and time out the 2-4 hides, it's game over. The melee player won't be able to dodge ow5 enough, even in elusive, before burst fire+overwatch chains kill them. Overwatch 5 should definitely be banned from the armada musket, and probably shouldn't be allowed on musket pirates.
    Last edited by Mathew; 09-02-2018 at 09:40 AM.



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    Re: PvP Rule Discussion Thread

    Loving the feedback! There are some really good points being made, and I do understand there is an update on test realm that could possibly change a few player's thoughts on a few points. This is one of the main reasons I'm leaving this discussion up for a month so we can be as thorough as possible before the voting poll is set--well, that and I wanted as many members as possible to be able to participate since I know not everyone visits the site every day.

    Also, for some reason, the site is automatically moderating blast of dis cord. I'll mention this to Jester to see if we can get it put on the safe list, but until then, just keep in mind if you spell the word together, your post will not show up until I or another mod can get to it.

    One other thing... for those that have issues formatting your posts, if you double space at the end of a paragraph and/or hit enter twice then there is a less chance of your paragraphs/thoughts all running together. This is a bug that's plagued us for a while.
    Last edited by Celestialmoon; 09-02-2018 at 09:40 AM.







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  17. #9
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    Re: PvP Rule Discussion Thread

    Regarding scratch buffs, I dont think that the middle scratch buff would be unfair or unbalanced. I would probably not be able to get a 2K mournsong with that middle buff, and 2K absorbs are not that big a deal when facing bucklers with hidden attacks, bucks with chains, and the high damage output that the melee classes have. Allowing the buff would make witch doctors more competitive with the other classes, especially since the other classes have witch hunter to reduce damage from magic attacks.

    If anything, I think we should allow the middle scratch buff just for witch doctors



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  19. #10
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    Re: PvP Rule Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by victor View Post
    Ok....Lets be honest here. Most people who play Pirates and do PVP in general see Central and think to themselves "Oh this sounds like a good idea" or "Oh i can finally get better/show my skill through this". However, lets also be honest in establishing that Central rules have never been Great or even Good for that matter. Central rules have always been more in line with favoring the "#Paytowin" mentality in which if you didn't have any of the so called good gear (Moo Robe, Trees, Banner esc. I can go on for a while) you were automatically at a disadvantage as shown as how (No offense to Quentin's just using him to make my point but how Quentin has been able to win 1st place in the couple past tournaments defeating all the good Players that have also participated through using or in a sense abusing this "cheese" that has been allowed through Central rules. Its highly apparent that players feel discouraged by the rules as who would honestly want to face someone that's able to summon 2 sets of top tier minions aka Trees/Scorpions and Terra cotta while having to deal with the Beast Banner boosting their weapon power, finding themselves in red a couple rounds in the match without them being able to do anything about it.
    So yea allowing all these items in Central was and still is a terrible idea, and its honestly what's been killing my drive in doing matches as honestly its just a pain to deal with, as really it takes no skill in summoning hordes of summons then placing a banner down and just watching them do everything for you.
    Sorry, but I think that this is not a fair assessment. The game is full of "cheese" for all classes, without needing to get gear. Its not hard and does not take much skill for a buccaneer to train relentless 3, bladestorm 3, tide 3, etc. Its all a different type of "cheese". Same as black fog, witch hunter, etc. All different types of "cheese" that the game has built in. Witch doctors had some as well in the past, but with gaze taken away, witch hunter, etc they dont have much "cheese" of their own any more.

    That being said, I have noticed that most players dont want to try different types of set up to counter-act minions, banner, scratch buff. They just want to use the same mostly mindless strategies with the same companions and gear, and if it becomes difficult to win, then they think its not fair. Yet I have lost to a number of bucks and bucklers even in no-rules matches, so it can be done.



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