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  1. #111
    Logan's Avatar
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork12 View Post
    Yeah Ban everything LOL, Forbiddance and Champion weapons = to 2 not exactly everything > He said he is not Slandering me lol , ill just give you a pass on explaining your own words . I only responded to one of your incorrect things about the witch hunter ans everything else incorrect you said i didn't bother responding to because you just don't know things . Mathew on the other hand does know things but me and him disagree how much the spell is effective and is its effectiveness it self Ban worthy > Mathew will learn how effective the spell is if he ever gets kicked out of tournament . I understand why he disagrees with me its because this spell is hardly used in pvp and because its not a effective generally in the game as it is in the tournament .Which is exactly what my take was on this power till i saw 10-15 matches of Cedric's as well as my tournament matches.The main point about this power isn't even effectiveness but the very nature of the spell it self is unfair .And the fact still stands i got kicked out of the tournament over one spell . this went left and right which wasn't my intention , one response to another and way off topic due to things i said in trying to explain it and what other people said. It is fair to give everyone the same tools when it comes to fighting matches and champion weapons , and so is also fair not to take away most important tools from one player when it comes to this forbiddance power. And this is simple to understand . Rules in general should be set not to favor anyone - is why weapons should be ban cause only some ppl have it.And this power is just terrible and should be Ban as well to avoid this kind of situations like in my matches > I think everyone knows how i lost my matches isn't fair and thats wrong - the question is how often will that happen to be ban worthy > Also as i said before till this happens to you in the tournament say like in the final you fought your way up to that point and put allot of time ,effort in it only to lose matches that you really didn't lose but one bad spell took you out , then understand it.This thread is but a small part exactly why its not worth doing pvp in pirates > I been attacked for months now by only 4 or 5 toxic ppl on every forum and i had enough of it from the same ppl . In 11 years of being on Central and doing pvp , ladders and tournaments i had one disagreement with the player called TheonlyOne522 and it was just that a disagreement Till pvp in this game and all the unfair demeaning i seen and community being small so you get 4 or 5 ppl to cause all the chaos with everyone else .So glad i quit i am not the kind of person that puts up with this , and that's why i speak out , even thou i been the most blunt here its nothing compared to all the daily attacks , put downs , insults and what not for months now.Adios , now you can continue to demean and bully each other .


    Didn't want to respond or get myself involved into this topic again but i guess i can't help it. Even though i've been inactive in the PvP side until a new interesting meta shines up (Come on, I'm sick and tired of using the same companions and same strats and gear and this meta overall and i'm looking for a new era or something new or interesting to continue and compete like the 2016 Meta and Haywire Weapons/Companions).


    I don't understand how do you think Forbiddance is "cheating" Or "broken". Any skilled player knows very well that it's a one in a 10 times chance power. A very hit or a miss power to use at your very own risk. And it isn't entirely broken as it can remove a power that both, Caster and opponent has in their decks. It's a pure power of dice. Can it be a frustrating power to deal with? Sure. But that doesn't deserve a ban as the power is incredibly underpowered (Thanks to the fact it has a one in 10 chances to likely remove a certain important power) and thanks to the fact that no one will bother to waste a training point on a power that has a higher possibility to backfire on the casters themselves as well.


    Christopher and I may have some points and thoughts that we disagree with, But no skilled or any player that has common decency and knows the basics would disagree with the fact that this power is a two-sided power that has it's consquences and rewards for using it. And just because it backfired on you and didn't backfire on him doesn't make it broken. And even when it does backfire on you, It doesn't mean it's game over. It only takes down a power and the rest of it's copies in your deck. Which doesn't end the match for you, Just decreases the chances of winning.

    And i don't have to explain the rest. I think you do know why or how this escalated (If you're a skilled player, It's easy to figure out). You didn't apply much pressure enough to force him to use something else instead of risking a round on using forbiddance. Don't know for how long we will have to say this but again for the million time, If you do not apply pressure on your opponent, Don't expect that you'll be served a win on a silver-made plate. If your enemy clearly sees you aren't applying pressure, They will play with more aggression and control the tempo for the rest of the game.

    At the end of the day, The loss? It's your fault as a result for missing your chances when you had them to apply pressure correctly on him and got the match to the table flipping point.
    Last edited by Logan; 11-01-2019 at 03:42 PM.
    Logan - Blade Dancer - Swashbuckler - PvP Champion - Pirate101 Articles and Guides Writer for Final Bastion



  2. #112
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Logan View Post

    (If you're a skilled player, It's easy to figure out). You didn't apply much pressure enough to force him to use something else instead of risking a round on using forbiddance. Don't know for how long we will have to say this but again for the million time, If you do not apply pressure on your opponent, Don't expect that you'll be served a win on a silver-made plate. If your enemy clearly sees you aren't applying pressure, They will play with more aggression and control the tempo for the rest of the game.

    At the end of the day, The loss? It's your fault as a result for missing your chances when you had them to apply pressure correctly on him and got the match to the table flipping point.
    Bingo. Shame i'm gonna have to do a whole video to explain what you just pointed out to him in a few sentences.
    A thousand villages overgrown with weeds, men wasted away; Ten thousand homes where only ghosts sing. Reckless Christopher, pleased to meet you.



  3. #113
    Stephanie's Avatar
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    As one of the most mature people here (I just turned twenty-nine, and I am also currently working part-time as a teacher) I feel obliged to say something >.<


    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork12 View Post
    till this happens to you in the tournament say like in the final you fought your way up to that point and put allot of time ,effort in it only to lose matches that you really didn't lose but one bad spell took you out , then understand it.
    Okay so your original point was how Forbiddance feels unfair to play against when it highrolls. ("Highroll" is a term from PVP games referring to when a luck-based card, in this case Forbiddance, happens to hit for a significant impact.)

    There are two ideas contained within this point:

    1) that your elimination from the tournament felt unfair, which none of the people who have responded so far seem to care about.

    2) that the card is mechanically unfair. In response to this idea, I see basically two arguments being made:
    a. the chance of highrolling is small.
    b. even taking into consideration the chance that it might highroll, there are ways to play around it. ("Play around" means to expect a move and plan a counter-move.) These counter-moves include positioning (stay outside of the 3-square range), or pressuring (make it dangerous for your opponent to use forbiddance that turn; make them fort, move, or hide instead, for example).

    Matthew and Christopher have both responded in-depth to the second point. And I agree with their responses - I don't think the card is mechanically unfair.

    But with regard to the first point, that it felt unfair, I have these things to say:

    To Matthew, Christopher, and other leaders of the PVP community: If you want to be effective teachers, you have to realize that every person is unique. Some people can handle being called bad and will in fact learn better the more they are criticized. Other people, if you try that same method with them, will get angry and upset and straight up quit. I'm assuming you don't want that to happen. I'm assuming you want to actually try and build up the community. If that's the case, then you have to try other ways of teaching. Try encouraging people, acknowledging the effort they've put in, telling them what they're doing well in addition to what they're doing wrong. Try showing some actual empathy. If you don't care to try these other methods, well then the PVP community will continue to be small and possibly shrink even more over time.

    To Eric: It feels really bad to lose, especially to something that you didn't know how to play around. I've been there too. In the beginning it feels like a shock. But the more you practice, the more you'll be able to expect what's coming and plan accordingly. Try to focus on the things you can control and work on improving yourself, instead of blaming things that are outside of your control. Also be kind to yourself. No matter what other people say, you're a smart person and you have to believe in yourself.

    Okay. That's all I wanted to say.
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  5. #114
    ClockWork12's Avatar
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie View Post
    As one of the most mature people here (I just turned twenty-nine, and I am also currently working part-time as a teacher) I feel obliged to say something >.<




    Okay so your original point was how Forbiddance feels unfair to play against when it highrolls. ("Highroll" is a term from PVP games referring to when a luck-based card, in this case Forbiddance, happens to hit for a significant impact.)

    There are two ideas contained within this point:

    1) that your elimination from the tournament felt unfair, which none of the people who have responded so far seem to care about.

    2) that the card is mechanically unfair. In response to this idea, I see basically two arguments being made:
    a. the chance of highrolling is small.
    b. even taking into consideration the chance that it might highroll, there are ways to play around it. ("Play around" means to expect a move and plan a counter-move.) These counter-moves include positioning (stay outside of the 3-square range), or pressuring (make it dangerous for your opponent to use forbiddance that turn; make them fort, move, or hide instead, for example).

    Matthew and Christopher have both responded in-depth to the second point. And I agree with their responses - I don't think the card is mechanically unfair.

    But with regard to the first point, that it felt unfair, I have these things to say:

    To Matthew, Christopher, and other leaders of the PVP community: If you want to be effective teachers, you have to realize that every person is unique. Some people can handle being called bad and will in fact learn better the more they are criticized. Other people, if you try that same method with them, will get angry and upset and straight up quit. I'm assuming you don't want that to happen. I'm assuming you want to actually try and build up the community. If that's the case, then you have to try other ways of teaching. Try encouraging people, acknowledging the effort they've put in, telling them what they're doing well in addition to what they're doing wrong. Try showing some actual empathy. If you don't care to try these other methods, well then the PVP community will continue to be small and possibly shrink even more over time.

    To Eric: It feels really bad to lose, especially to something that you didn't know how to play around. I've been there too. In the beginning it feels like a shock. But the more you practice, the more you'll be able to expect what's coming and plan accordingly. Try to focus on the things you can control and work on improving yourself, instead of blaming things that are outside of your control. Also be kind to yourself. No matter what other people say, you're a smart person and you have to believe in yourself.

    Okay. That's all I wanted to say.
    I don't have much to say to Matthew. I was too blunt to him responding if i said anything at all to you that was disrespectful i am sorry and was not my intention > Matthew does get annoying at times, his know it all thing gets him to be too dismissive of any new view points at times but thats about it (and i don't mean that in a disrespectful way)> He is a good Leader in pvp community, is respectful and helpful to all and welcoming . I give him great credit for what he does .Chis isn't any kind of leader of anything just a a put down in chef because i guess he gets a kick out of it.Idk where you got the idea of him being any kind of leader of anything but it doesn't matter>The dude makes videos is about all he does , and each video is about showing saying how everyone is a stupid dumb player in the game and how he is the best , Yet the facts are not there to support that and thats demeaning and ugly.You make videos but don't demean other players or call them ugly insults that's normal and nice. I am blunt and do get upset easy and i am very honest i always say the truth ,but i am also kind to everyone who is kind them self's , and a side from 4 or 5 bad ppl i have made many friends in the game . Here on central nothing can really be explained what was said in other places. The nasty insults , and its just sad , i was attacked in game and other places daily , insulted you name it , name called every ugly thing you can think of it > Why i have no idea , i fought back but i am sick of it and that doesn't work for me because its opposite to my personal character , i also tired ignoring but i was even worse at doing that just can't ignore things at all ,some people were telling me just ignore it or don't let them do that to you they will win you lose out on things, you just making your self look bad as they are by fighting back . I just couldn't ignore any of it because i can't understand why some people attack you when you do no wrong to them and because its just not right at all, now they can fight others and each other > Whats more i didn't attack anyone first to give a reason .

    As to the forbiddance perhaps ill catch on later if more ppl start using it and makes more impact cuz atm hardly anyone does.The remove tools nature of this spell is a fact how you guys want to see it up to you , i see that as a unfair bad shifting fairness and balance tool.This is a video game not boxing but the rules of fairness of players or fighters should really apply to anything - you don't give one boxer in the ring to beat other with the metal hammer and expect its a fair fight instead they both fight with their hands . AS any good player knows tools are only second to what the player can do in importance .You can't win without good tools or without them you will lose . Avoiding being hit by forbiddance isn't a right argument for anything and this spell is something you shouldn't have to be playing around which is the whole point because its a unfair spell that takes tools away . All of you guys are wrong imo how you view this power and why? because tournaments are something ppl put lot of effort in and prizes are there , its not rank where anything and everything goes and rules are made to insure everyone has the same tools ,and for this very reason -insuring everyone has the same tools is why this power needs to be ban and champion weapons because thats fair to all . i honesty am terrible at explaining but thats the best i can do already edit multi times,you can't play around it if you have no tools to play around it ,When all 3 of my main attacks were taken i had nothing to kill him with so how do you play around it .If all your shields are taken from you how do you play around it ? you don't !, I had a very bad hand at the start of the match ,companions took range damage and it seemed like a losing match but i played around it just fine and killed his companions and got the value out of my own -thats playing around things . you have to come to your opponent to attack which means you will get hit by a spell at some point ,can avoid it a while but to totally avoid is just not possible -how would you use any of your buckler attacks when every buckler attack is range 1 so you simply can't avoid being hit by this spell. i beat his musket before with my buckler on the first try and he didn't have that spell or used it nor did I know he trained it ,you can't avoid being hit by a spell you don't even know other player has it , sure i could have tried to avoid it if i cared to in the second match, after he used it first time i gave up on the game and was going to stop playing because i knew i can't fight that and that the tournament was lost and in the second match it was just confirmed what i already knew -this is a reason why i said to Matthew that he doesn't know ,but i finished it because its not in my nature to flee or not finish something.I don't have to deal with champion weapons or forbiddance that will be up to you all to deal with cuz i am done with pirate101 not worth my nerves> But after what happened in my matches if i were ever cared to come back i wouldn't play a single central tournament till this power is banned Peace out. And don't worry Stephanie i do believe in my self , I'm ex US Marine and I......... officer , thank for the nice words thou.You are a very good player in the game and your videos are great , again thx.
    Last edited by ClockWork12; 11-02-2019 at 02:59 PM.
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  7. #115
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    (Btw for anyone reading and not sure what's going on, Forbiddance is a PVP-only card available from the trainer Kurotadori. In order to use it, you have to be within 3 squares of your opponent. What it does is it randomly selects a card that your opponent has in their hand, and then it deletes all copies of that card from both players' decks.

    The scenario we're talking about is when A casts Forbiddance on B, and it happens to hit something that's very important to B but not important to A, like Assassin Strike if A is playing musket and B is playing swashbuckler. B then has no big hits left in deck and is crippled for the rest of the game. We're disagreeing on whether this is unfair to B.

    What Matthew pointed out - correctly in my opinion - is that A has to somehow be within range of B and also not be pressured, in order to safely use Forbiddance. In addition, A has to get lucky. If Forbiddance happens to delete something that is not important, like Gallant Defense or Shadowdance, then it wouldn't impact the game in such a big way.

    I'll just add quickly as well that I've personally encountered Forbiddance in ranked PVP. I was playing privateer and Friendly Jesse Pew was playing swashbuckler. He hid, came within range, and played Forbiddance, hoping to delete all copies of something important, like Valor's Fortress or Revive. Instead, it happened to hit my one copy of Battle Zeal, so it wasn't that big of a deal, and I later ended up winning the game.

    Anyway, I don't think Forbiddance is overpowered enough to require a ban, but others can feel free to add their thoughts.)


    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork12 View Post
    i honesty am terrible at explaining but thats the best i can do already edit multi times,you can't play around it if you have no tools to play around it ,When all 3 of my main attacks were taken i had nothing to kill him with so how do you play around it .If all your shields are taken from you how do you play around it ? you don't !
    You can't play around it after it happens, which in this case wasn't your fault because you didn't know he had it and you just didn't expect it. But for future games, you'll know how it works and will (hopefully) be more precise with positioning.


    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork12 View Post
    Chis isn't any kind of leader of anything just a a put down in chef because i guess he gets a kick out of it.Idk where you got the idea of him being any kind of leader of anything but it doesn't matter>The dude makes videos is about all he does , and each video is about showing saying how everyone is a stupid dumb player in the game and how he is the best , Yet the facts are not there to support that and thats demeaning and ugly.You make videos but don't demean other players or call them ugly insults that's normal and nice.
    Chris is more knowledgeable about the game than I am because he's been playing Pirate PVP for many more years. I came over from Wiz in December 2017 and only got into Pirate PVP in the spring of 2018. When I started making videos about my experiences in Pirate, I wasn't actually trying to teach anyone, it was more sort of like yearbooking, or journalling - I felt that the experiences were worth recording and sharing. It surprised me when people started copying what I was doing, when I was really just learning and experimenting. >.< So yeah, if you want to actually learn how to be good at the game, please don't copy me lol. I am an above-average player but nowhere near the top.

    Anyway, I appreciate what Chris is trying to do in his videos, which is basically to teach what he knows. The thing is he isn't very good at teaching because all he ever sees is what people are doing wrong, and he gets frustrated and abrasive :P But he's trying. So let's give him some credit for that.
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  9. #116
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    This thread has gotten so far off topic. There is way too much disrespectful bickering and such going on here. I think this thread has ran its course.







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