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  1. #91
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    @Celestialmoon one power shouldn't be deciding matches however many matches a player wins with this CHEAT its wrong and don't belong in tournaments. This power can't be abused like this in rank pvp - because you have no idea who you will face so you can't setup your gear to go around it to win with it .This power isn't broken till players decide to abuse it and set the strategy around it = then it becomes broken , unfair and straight up cheating imo.Why is this so bad - Take Frenzy for example its also a 1 power that decides matches but there is a very important difference between Frenzy and Forbiddance - Frenzy can be countered Forbiddance can't be countered in any way .
    Last edited by ClockWork12; 10-29-2019 at 05:38 PM.
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  2. #92
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork12 View Post
    there is a very important difference between Frenzy and Forbiddance - Frenzy can be countered Forbiddance can't be countered in any way .
    It's range is 3, and it triggers witch hunter?

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  3. #93
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sarcasticjoseph View Post
    It's range is 3, and it triggers witch hunter?
    those are not counters . idk what the rage is on it but range it self is why witch hunter wouldn't trigger and even if witch hunter trigger that's not a effective counter to losing your most important tools to be able to play the matches.I would bet the whole tournament can be won with this cheat , specially in the setting of this tour where most players are using bucklers and buckler is most effected class by this cheating strategy .Its enough to win 1 match out of 3 with every opponent to give a user a free tournament win .
    Last edited by ClockWork12; 10-30-2019 at 01:20 AM.
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  4. #94
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork12 View Post
    those are not counters . idk what the rage is on it but range it self is why witch hunter wouldn't trigger and even if witch hunter trigger that's not a effective counter to losing your most important tools to be able to play the matches.I would bet the whole tournament can be won with this cheat , specially in the setting of this tour where most players are using bucklers and buckler is most effected class by this cheating strategy .Its enough to win 1 match out of 3 with every opponent to give a user a free tournament win .
    3 years and nobody has had issues with forbiddance. Losing to forbiddance is not a good example. It can remove 1 thing in your hand and all copies. Whether it be forts, assasins, vicious, levy, brutal, whale, fog, darkness, highland, uncanny, zeal, bombs, esc.
    Legit the only reason you're calling forbiddance broken is because you lost to it. That's not right mate. Asking to ban things because you can't deal with it is kinda rude. Like I've said before (off central) people only label things they can't fight "cheap" which is not right. Relying on chance is far from "cheap"

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  5. #95
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sarcasticjoseph View Post
    3 years and nobody has had issues with forbiddance. Losing to forbiddance is not a good example. It can remove 1 thing in your hand and all copies. Whether it be forts, assasins, vicious, levy, brutal, whale, fog, darkness, highland, uncanny, zeal, bombs, esc.
    Legit the only reason you're calling forbiddance broken is because you lost to it. That's not right mate. Asking to ban things because you can't deal with it is kinda rude. Like I've said before (off central) people only label things they can't fight "cheap" which is not right. Relying on chance is far from "cheap"
    I think you honestly have no idea . I outlined the reasons why this spell is a problem and how it became a problem > IT took a person to abuse it to actually have broken results and a tournament lined up with Swashbucklers < I also explained how this spell isn't a in game problem . But i guess you didn't read it so you saying things that make no sense , even my opponent admitted as you can see some of it in screen shoots that this won the games . There is no Zeals and half of the things you named on Buckler . People didn't have a issue with it because No one actually used it like this as you can see from what the opponent said in the screen shot. I don't feel like spelling things out for you i explained it you just didn't understand it or don't believe it . The point is no one can fight this it applies to anyone who has to face it , and it is cheap and a cheat strategy otherwise i wouldn't say it. People who have skill to win matches don't need this to win them .This isn't relaying on a small chance - its setup in abused way to bypass the spell mechanics of removing things from both players that's why chances of it working are so high combined with the fact of buckler class having the smallest amount of spells which it showed in both matches i had . And will show in every other match in this tournament , whenever Buckler fight this musket or A Buck.
    Last edited by ClockWork12; 10-29-2019 at 11:58 PM.
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  6. #96
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork12 View Post
    I think you honestly have no idea . I outlined the reasons why this spell is a problem and how it became a problem > IT took a person to abuse it to actually have broken results and a tournament lined up with Swashbucklers < I also explained how this spell isn't a in game problem . But i guess you didn't read it so you saying things that make no sense , even my opponent admitted as you can see some of it in screen shoots that this won the games . There is no Zeals and half of the things you named on Buckler . People didn't have a issue with it because No one actually used it like this as you can see from what the opponent said in the screen shot. I don't feel like spelling things out for you i explained it you just didn't understand it or don't believe it . The point is no one can fight this it applies to anyone who has to face it , and it is cheap and a cheat strategy otherwise i wouldn't say it. People who have skill to win matches don't need this to win them .This isn't relaying on a small chance - its setup in abused way to bypass the spell mechanics of removing things from both players that's why chances of it working are so high combined with the fact of buckler class having the smallest amount of spells which it showed in both matches i had . And will show in every other match in this tournament , whenever Buckler fight this musket or A Buck.
    Everything you said is based off 2 match. You claimed no one can fight it, but that's just not true. People have used forbbiddance on me at least 100 times since 2016, I've only lost 12 of those matches. Forbiddance has 3 range, no one has to stay in one spot or open themselves up to forbiddance. (In general) you can't call it broken you really can't. I brought up witch hunter because muskets have low dodge, so when you charge a musket and they decide to use forbiddance, well witch hunter is gonna hurt musket allot.
    Consider forbiddance as a luck based purge. Do you give your opponent(s) a chance to purge? Do you consider purge cheap?

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  7. #97
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sarcasticjoseph View Post
    Everything you said is based off 2 match. You claimed no one can fight it, but that's just not true. People have used forbbiddance on me at least 100 times since 2016, I've only lost 12 of those matches. Forbiddance has 3 range, no one has to stay in one spot or open themselves up to forbiddance. (In general) you can't call it broken you really can't. I brought up witch hunter because muskets have low dodge, so when you charge a musket and they decide to use forbiddance, well witch hunter is gonna hurt musket allot.
    Consider forbiddance as a luck based purge. Do you give your opponent(s) a chance to purge? Do you consider purge cheap?
    Joseph respectfully you just don't understand this . Purge is something completely different - it has a counter , its a 1 turn effective tactical spell that doesn't affect the player for the whole match like forbiddance does and so on too lazy to explain it all. Witch hunter again will not trigger from 3 range there for in case vs buckler has no bearing on the situation , muskets will want to use it from the range to keep the over watch distance and so on . I have played many matches in game where this power was used but not a single match in game players setup their gear to work with this spell .This is something you haven't experienced in the game in this specific way. Its a first time i saw it anyone do it in this way and it will as i say only be very effective in the setting such as this tournament.
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork12 View Post
    Although i quit pirate101 , idk i may come back next year if i can . I have one request that should be srsly considered imo. In the new tournament my opponent used a spell called forbidddance > Its a cheap cheat play a broken garbage spell that can be abused totally and shouldn't be in pvp at all . Ki as always never for see that players will abuse anything . It removes 1 of your powers all copies of it . So opponent such as musket can set their gear around it so whatever is removed it will win the game vs Melee classes . Its a cheap broken garbage that players who care to beat others with skill wouldn't abuse it and it should be removed because the balance of the spell to where it removes 1 power from both players can be by passed and abused .In case of my matches in the tour i lost 2 matches due to this cheap trick and there is no counter for that no can you recover or win if your main spells are removed , you simply lose the most important spells to actually be able to do the match> In 2 of the matches i had i lost all my assassin attacks and all my revive heals , if i dint lose those i could have lost all my shields or all my hides would be the same result . Melee Classes like Swashbuckler and Buccaneer have usually 1 first page of powers and few more powers on the second page. Of the powers buck and buckler have most of it can be broken in 4 main groups of powers - like you have your heals , forts, attacks and hides - the chances that one of those important groups will be removed is actually very high as you can see by what happened in my matches . In case of a privateer its really not a problem since privry has 3 pages of different powers .Sure we have few other spells like buffs on a buck or a gunnery attack for example so if one of those would be removed it really isn't a problem for the match but as i said buckler and buck have those groups of important powers and those will get hit i would say 60 to 70 % of the time . Its a problem when a player makes the strategy around this forbiddance to where you can set your gear to avoid anything being removed from self . Like for example you can use Levy shields instead of forts in which case your Levy shields will not be removed unless your opponent has them too , yet if your opponent has forts all his forts will be removed while you lose nothing . This changes the playing field to where if you are in the tournament you can count on this to win half of your matches for you at least . Imo thats a very big deal and totally unfair to other players . I would never use it cause its below my ways how to win a tournament .
    This is a completely incorrect take. Forbiddance is far from broken, and honestly, is far from good. To use it, a player has to
    • be in range of the opponent
    • be able to take a round off from doing something that directly affects the board (healing, shielding, running to avoid an attack)
    • be willing to put it high in their power list, potentially giving them a dead card in the early game should they be on the back foot

    Let's look at the odds and see how likely it is that forbiddance "hits" on a swashbuckler, assuming a 32 card power setup. By the time your opponent is able to use forbiddance on you (at the beginning of the middle-game), I think it's reasonable to assume that you've used somewhere between 6-8 powers. A hide, a valor's shield, probably a fort (unless you ignored their companions and just ran away with your pirate), an attack (probably an assassin), a shadowdance, a poison, and, more likely than not, a second hide and/or a heal. This leaves you with 24-26 powers left in deck.

    How many of them are immediately game over if they're hit? I'd argue only 6, maybe 7-8 at max- 2 assassins, 2 revives, 2 protections, and if you haven't used either of your two walk in darknesses, arguably those. Since it's likely you've used a single assassin's gloom already, losing one isn't game over. Losing your shroud, while very annoying, isn't a guaranteed loss. Anything else you could lose probably isn't impactful enough to warrant discussion. So, we're talking about a 8/24-26 hit rate at best, and a 6/24-26 hit rate at worst- a maximum chance of 33%. I don't think a power that has only a 33% chance of hitting something impactful is broken, let alone good.

    Let's say you're still worried about forbiddance. How can you play around it?
    • PRESSURE! If your opponent cannot safely forbiddance you (they'd take too much damage and have to spend their rounds doing something more impactful), you're obviously at no risk. That means ensuring that units hinder your ability to approach are dead.
    • Don't unnecessarily stay in their range. This should just be good practice, but it bears repeating.
    • Use 1 copy of powers you have multiple of in the early game to reduce the impact of a hit. Let's say I need to heal. I have 2 revives and a rally. If I'm super worried about forbiddance, I'd use a revive first- it avoids any chance of a 2-for-1 from forbiddance. Then, if your second revive, your rally, or your rouse is hit, you're still ok. The same argument holds for assassin's gloom, forts (probably something you'll do against a musket in general, as you need to get into the fray yourself to ensure that their key units die), and Walk in Darkness (if you're scared of forbiddance, drop your second hide before they get it off, if it's remotely practical to do so. At that point, you've lowered their hit rate to 6/24, and even less if you've used a revive over a rally)


    Your argument about using levies over forts: there's a real cost to doing this on the part of your opponent, especially if they're facing a swash. Take advantage of those decisions.

    Finally, if this power was SO broken, why has it been in the game for over 4 years without someone beginning to abuse it as radically as you claim? If what you say is true (I don't think it is), people should have been using this to dominate melee classes since 2015, which clearly isn't the case. So, one of two things is true: the community is so unintelligent that they cast off an incredibly broken power as near useless for 4 over years, OR you got caught on the wrong side of variance for 2 matches in a row. Given the math of the situation, I'm inclined to believe it's the latter.
    Last edited by Mathew; 10-30-2019 at 08:56 AM. Reason: grammaring is hard



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  10. #99
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork12 View Post
    Joseph respectfully you just don't understand this . Purge is something completely different - it has a counter , its a 1 turn effective tactical spell that doesn't affect the player for the whole match like forbiddance does and so on too lazy to explain it all. Witch hunter again will not trigger from 3 range there for in case vs buckler has no bearing on the situation , muskets will want to use it from the range to keep the over watch distance and so on . I have played many matches in game where this power was used but not a single match in game players setup their gear to work with this spell .This is something you haven't experienced in the game in this specific way. Its a first time i saw it anyone do it in this way and it will as i say only be very effective in the setting such as this tournament.
    The example for purge was the range. Nobody purposely opens themselves to purge. The idea of witch hunter was basically you can use witch hunter to pressure if someone uses forbiddance. Assasin them, and if they try to use forbiddance after taking 1,000-2,000 damage, well that's weird. Doesn't happen. Yer complaining about 2 matches. If everyone was like you some people could be like: Purge needs to be banned, it's pure and simply unfair. Example. I lost to it 2 matches in a row. My opponent hid and purged me and killed me with a full team attack. This cannot be countered. Because he can set his hide for purge, and if you are hidden he can just wait it out and yer done. That's basically what you are saying, but with forbiddance, and gear change.

    Like i said. I'm not good at making examples, but what i am hearing is you can't handle forbiddance, so you now wanna paint this picture, that makes forbiddance look better then it is. Which is not right. If forbiddance had a range of 5 i can somewhat see that, but forbiddance range is 3, and just like purge no one sits there and takes purge.

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  11. #100
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathew View Post
    This is a completely incorrect take. Forbiddance is far from broken, and honestly, is far from good. To use it, a player has to
    • be in range of the opponent
    • be able to take a round off from doing something that directly affects the board (healing, shielding, running to avoid an attack)
    • be willing to put it high in their power list, potentially giving them a dead card in the early game should they be on the back foot

    Let's look at the odds and see how likely it is that forbiddance "hits" on a swashbuckler, assuming a 32 card power setup. By the time your opponent is able to use forbiddance on you (at the beginning of the middle-game), I think it's reasonable to assume that you've used somewhere between 6-8 powers. A hide, a valor's shield, probably a fort (unless you ignored their companions and just ran away with your pirate), an attack (probably an assassin), a shadowdance, a poison, and, more likely than not, a second hide and/or a heal. This leaves you with 24-26 powers left in deck.

    How many of them are immediately game over if they're hit? I'd argue only 6, maybe 7-8 at max- 2 assassins, 2 revives, 2 protections, and if you haven't used either of your two walk in darknesses, arguably those. Since it's likely you've used a single assassin's gloom already, losing one isn't game over. Losing your shroud, while very annoying, isn't a guaranteed loss. Anything else you could lose probably isn't impactful enough to warrant discussion. So, we're talking about a 8/24-26 hit rate at best, and a 6/24-26 hit rate at worst- a maximum chance of 33%. I don't think a power that has only a 33% chance of hitting something impactful is broken, let alone good.

    Let's say you're still worried about forbiddance. How can you play around it?
    • PRESSURE! If your opponent cannot safely forbiddance you (they'd take too much damage and have to spend their rounds doing something more impactful), you're obviously at no risk. That means ensuring that units hinder your ability to approach are dead.
    • Don't unnecessarily stay in their range. This should just be good practice, but it bears repeating.
    • Use 1 copy of powers you have multiple of in the early game to reduce the impact of a hit. Let's say I need to heal. I have 2 revives and a rally. If I'm super worried about forbiddance, I'd use a revive first- it avoids any chance of a 2-for-1 from forbiddance. Then, if your second revive, your rally, or your rouse is hit, you're still ok. The same argument holds for assassin's gloom, forts (probably something you'll do against a musket in general, as you need to get into the fray yourself to ensure that their key units die), and Walk in Darkness (if you're scared of forbiddance, drop your second hide before they get it off, if it's remotely practical to do so. At that point, you've lowered their hit rate to 6/24, and even less if you've used a revive over a rally)


    Your argument about using levies over forts: there's a real cost to doing this on the part of your opponent, especially if they're facing a swash. Take advantage of those decisions.

    Finally, if this power was SO broken, why has it been in the game for over 4 years without someone beginning to abuse it as radically as you claim? If what you say is true (I don't think it is), people should have been using this to dominate melee classes since 2015, which clearly isn't the case. So, one of two things is true: the community is so unintelligent that they cast off an incredibly broken power as near useless for 4 over years, OR you got caught on the wrong side of variance for 2 matches in a row. Given the math of the situation, I'm inclined to believe it's the latter.
    Matthew none of this has anything to do with it > Because this power can't be abused in the game i said that already , Only in a tournament setting such this where you know who you fighting and know what gear they will have > You simply have no idea honestly , you need to see it your self to know it . I am tired of explaining it and dont really care who understands it or who believes it - just watch what happens with other opponents matches in this tournament . i Am 100 % sure that one out of every 3 matches will be won with this cheat -and thats probably the low side of it .If that isn't a problem i don't know what is . You will not run into this setting and situation in the game its very rare but i said all this all ready .Play the game dude and play against it your self and test it then see it thats all i can tell you otherwise all you said has no meaning because it doesn't apply to it and you didn't see it .Most powers on buckler are in groups one of the groups will get hit .i have done allot of matches with Cedric which is where my opponent got the idea from because he was losing matches from Cedric on his buck in this way - how many idk i saw him lose 2 like this . But i have lost some my self < Other times he removed all my forts but removed his too and i won those matches using hides and assassins .Still Cedric used the power without setting gear to work with it which isn't the same .Yet the power worked even in matches with Cedric more then half of the time he won matches with forbiddance > i left pvp over toxic ppl and not enough players also my family needs and really don't care what rules you have afterwards but hopefully you get to play against it your self lose a final over it then come back to read things here.
    Last edited by ClockWork12; 10-30-2019 at 05:21 PM.
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