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  1. #31
    sarcasticjoseph's Avatar
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    Post Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathew View Post
    used to cheese out wins against inferior players
    I can cheese players with nurse quinn (ban nurse quinn) does that mean nurse quinn is overpowered? No! Anyone can cheese an inferior player.

    PIZZA! PIZZA! PIZZA!





  2. #32
    Stephanie's Avatar
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathew View Post
    Technically, yes crown shop weapons are "available" to everyone, as in everyone can physically purchase them. But, there are people who cannot afford them. In my eyes, this is no different than the champion weapon case. This is a group of people who are unable to obtain these weapons. We agree that this subsect of players shouldn't be catered to

    We never agreed that this subset shouldn't be catered to. It depends on the tournament. The current tournament disallows crown shop companions.


    I appreciate ClockWork's point about the champion weapons not being available to everyone. I would be fine with opening some special tournaments where no champion weapons or crown shop weapons or even pets are allowed, to ensure the fairest playing field possible.
    Stephanie Dawnheart in Wizard101 ⚫ Dandy Stephanie in Pirate101



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  4. #33
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    My Pirate101 Character is a Musketeer

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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathew View Post
    If you really want to die on this hill of "musket and privy cannot effectively compete in central tours..."
    What you put in quotes is not to any degree what I indicated. You ask why there is a lack of privateer/musketeer in central activities and I pointed to a possibility (discouragement from rules). Don't take what I say out of proportion.

    "Blessed are those whose ways are blameless, who walk according to the law of the Lord." Psalm 119:1



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  6. #34
    sarcasticjoseph's Avatar
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    Post Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Logan View Post
    For a stronger evidence too, 2014+ Veteran PvP players were able to compete and win on these 2 classes exactly against other Veteran top PvP Players and I've witnessed it with my own eyes hundreds of times.
    You forgot to mention fog was basically useless back then. Bleedings could stack and was it levy or kraken that had 10 turns?

    PIZZA! PIZZA! PIZZA!



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  8. #35
    Logan's Avatar
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sarcasticjoseph View Post
    You forgot to mention fog was basically useless back then. Bleedings could stack and was it levy or kraken that had 10 turns?


    Edit: To sum this up as this has started to get off topic and I won't reply to anything that is off topic and refuting away from the main reason this thread was made for, Even with these and even when fog became useful later at the same year. These 2 classes were still strong and are still strong until this day. Nothing will change the reality of it. And bleeding did not stack back in 2014. At all.
    Last edited by Logan; 09-12-2019 at 01:38 AM.
    Logan - Blade Dancer - Swashbuckler - PvP Champion - Pirate101 Articles and Guides Writer for Final Bastion



  9. #36
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    Post Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Logan View Post
    Even with these and even when fog became useful later at the same year. These 2 classes were still strong and are still strong until this day. Nothing will change the reality of it.
    The concept to what i said is basically. You cannot argue a meta where nothing was the same as current events. I think i made that clear when i brought up assasin and levy.

    PIZZA! PIZZA! PIZZA!



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  11. #37
    RealDux's Avatar
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    My Pirate101 Character is a Musketeer

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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Logan View Post
    2014+ Veteran PvP players were able to compete and win on these 2 classes exactly against other Veteran top PvP Players


    • May 2014
      • The entire critical system is changed.
      • Class companions such as Fan Flanders are introduced.

    • September 2014
      • Taking damage no longer breaks hidden.
      • Swashbuckler companions receive Alert 1.

    • December 2014
      • Bladestorm includes criticals to the list of triggers.
      • Bomb traps stop leaving bombs in empty spaces that were previously an obstacle/enemy.




    • August 2015
      • Charming Gaze is no PVP.
      • Blood Flames is no PVP.
      • Debuffs no longer stack.
      • Leviathan's Call now applies correctly.
      • Terrorcotta Troup recieves a degrade for PVP.



    The mechanics have completely changed at some points.You cannot determine a class's present effectiveness by looking at 2015 or below.

    "Blessed are those whose ways are blameless, who walk according to the law of the Lord." Psalm 119:1



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  13. #38
    BiG BaD WoLFY's Avatar
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    I was was holding off on responding to this thread for a bit because I wanted to see what things were brought up. I'm sure this will merely be my first post here so I'll try to keep it as short as possible and to the point.


    -So before we can really talk about anything at all, we as the players need to decide what we want the goal of central rules to be. Do we want them to be fair? Do we want them to be balanced? Do we want them to cater to any specific underrepresented group of people while still being in line with the rest of the population? Do we want them to have everyone on a level playing field? Take a moment and really think about what your answers to all of these would be.

    Now, one would probably think a lot of these questions are redundant, but the reason I bring up all of them is because we cannot have rules that are fair and balanced and have everyone on a level playing field. It just isn't possible no matter how you look at it. That is why it is super important to first establish what our goal is and work from there. Anywho, I've already written an essay (sorry not sorry) despite trying not to so I'll just jump into my opinion on everything mentioned so far from my as unbiased as possible opinion of having everything balanced, since "fair" and "on a level playing field" are far more subjective.



    • Scratch- 100% mojo buff and purge need to remain banned, and I won't even talk about this because anyone who thinks otherwise is either extremely inexperienced, extremely biased, or downright unreasonable. The 50% for witches only I personally still think is a bit too much with everything else that's currently allowed, but I need to stress that I think this because the buff itself is unreasonable and not because I'm "trying to limit something I don't like/want to fight against". I know people will still disagree but I guess that's the great thing about having your own opinion.



    • Scorpions- I only suggested they be banned in tournament where you must use gear from specific early worlds as they become far too overwhelming because players do not have access to the same amount of resources to deal with them. Alone, they are fine in normal tournaments and are probably okay in mooshu world tournaments and on however.



    • Moo Robe Warriors- While RNG dependent, I think this power is too much for a competitive pvp environment. Frankly, it's comparable to trees if you consider how much stronger a cotta warrior is than a tree. Yes, them moving further and being limited in number and having much less health can make them lousy at times, but the potential for it to be such a potent, game changing power that it turns a match on its head is what makes it a no go from me. Luck dependent all or nothing powers, in my opinion, do not belong in a competitive pvp environment.



    • Champ Weapons- Leave Fall and Spring ones banned because there is a good enough argument for each of them when coupled with their exclusivity, but the others and not game changing in any way. You won't lose a match solely over the fact that your opponent had a champion weapon and you didn't. You will lose matches however where you're either outplayed or get really unlucky. There are tons of equally if not more viable weapons that everyone has access to. The argument that all champion weapons should be banned goes back to my earlier question, "what do we as players want the goal of central rules to be?". I always believe in the mantra of "if it's not broken, don't fix it", but there clearly is not consensus on this topic so I suppose that we'll see which way the majority wants to go.



    • Blast of Discord/Firstmate's Boon/Overwatch 5- In my opinion, these should remain banned. I won't delve into them now since this "short" post isn't so short anymore but I will mention them breifly in...



    Thoughts on Class Representation in Central Tournaments
    - I'll go into depth with this in a later post but I'll briefly mention a few things just to stir the pot.


    • Swashbucklers/Buccaneers are simply the more popular classes, period.



    • Privateers/Musketeers/Witchdoctors are underrepresented in my opinion primarily because of point 1, however restrictions on some of their powers/resources is certainly still another reason that might discourage players from using them.



    • People prefer the playstyle of swash/buck vs privy/musket/witch. This may also be because swash/buck are easier to use/learn than privy/musket/witch, and they also have a lot more wiggle room for mistakes.




    Anywho, so much for short and to the point, but I think I covered everything that was brought up so far at least a little bit. Again though, let's please ask ourselves what we want the goal of central rules to be so we can avoid unnecessary back and forths with mute points and actually establish what can/needs to be improved and the best way(s) to go about it. If you've made it this far, thanks for reading my novel.

    -Noble Wolf Hawkins- *PvP Champion*
    | Max -Swashbuckler-| Max Musketeer |
    |
    Max Privateer | Max Buccaneer |



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  15. #39
    Stephanie's Avatar
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BiG BaD WoLFY View Post
    -So before we can really talk about anything at all, we as the players need to decide what we want the goal of central rules to be. Do we want them to be fair? Do we want them to be balanced? Do we want them to cater to any specific underrepresented group of people while still being in line with the rest of the population? Do we want them to have everyone on a level playing field? Take a moment and really think about what your answers to all of these would be.

    Now, one would probably think a lot of these questions are redundant, but the reason I bring up all of them is because we cannot have rules that are fair and balanced and have everyone on a level playing field. It just isn't possible no matter how you look at it. That is why it is super important to first establish what our goal is and work from there.
    At the bottom of the Central rules page, it says that our goal is to provide participants with fair and competitive PvP. Discussions about game balance are valuable in that they cover the competitiveness part, but they do not address deeper unfairnesses such as some participants having items and companions that other participants simply do not have.

    On Wizard101 Central, there have been competitions using only bazaar gear, competitions without pets, and so on aimed at limiting the purely material gaps that divide players, so that competition becomes more about skill and less about the stuff one happens to have. In another game that I'm currently playing, budget decks are a thing as well.

    Anyway, I have no problem with the rules as they currently are, I just think it wouldn't hurt to have some special tournaments that are more welcoming and inclusive (less clique-y).
    Stephanie Dawnheart in Wizard101 ⚫ Dandy Stephanie in Pirate101



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  17. #40
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    I dont think that the way to create balance and fairness is necessarily by removing all restrictions that we currently have in place. Instead, we should put some type of limitations on buccaneer/bucklers, as we used to have in the old central rules.



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