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  1. #71
       LoyalDevinXavier is offline Land Lubber
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork12 View Post
    You as everyone else has a right to their opinion , with respect but this is inaccurate in presenting or assuming what my proposed ban was for , for which i made few posts and explained in details what my ban is about . Never said a single word about anything being overpowered or any heal being OP. perhaps you misunderstood or didn't read everything i said. My main emphasis was on other points such as fairness , advantage,availability of tools for all just to name 2 points , limiting game play for select few vs limiting game play in general ( or should i say limiting few spells on weapons to be available to be played in tournaments) , limiting few players access to extra options vs what benefits the competition more ect. quite a few points i made to go back and name them all yours weren't listed or really refer to at all . Honestly confusing stuff that really has nothing to do at all with my ban or points i explained , other than a small fact that there is a heal on one of those weapons.Didn't see Logan say anything like it either.
    You're saying how banning champ weapons is making things more fair, however, what's there being not fair? second wind is fair, it's essentially a revive and you can't heal someone to death. Also the poison weapon is also fair and you're acting like it isn't. I kind of get what you're saying, it's a champion weapon, you can not get those in ranked anymore, but the only weapon that's broken is the trees. All of the other weapons are fine. And second wind and an extra poison wouldn't change a whole outcome of a game since you getting a super poison, or heck, even mega poison is pretty unlikely. Would you rather have a buckler use assassin knives or the poison weapon? I'd definitely have them use the poison weapon over a assassin.
    You say how the champ weapons will give an advantage... No they wont. If it's the tree weapon, yes. But second wind and the summer flames, the poison weapon, all of that stuff is fair. I get the summer flames do about 1K, but if you put a fort on it does 500. 500 damage only as your weapon. A assassin for an example can do A LOT more than that. the surge weapon for privy is better than that, the assassin knives are better than that. The haywire thunder rifle for musket is better than that. So how is that person getting an advantage if the champion weapons are the same or worse than weapons any player can get?
    Last edited by Celestialmoon; 09-15-2019 at 05:29 PM. Reason: Mention of another site
    Loyal Devin Xavier - Level 70 Privateer Disloyal Devin Xavier - Level 70 Witchdoctor Pretty Devin Xavier - Level 70 Musketeer Ugly Devin Xavier - Level 70 Swashbuckler





  2. #72
    sarcasticjoseph's Avatar
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    Post Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalDevinXavier View Post
    second wind is fair, it's essentially a revive and you can't heal someone to death.
    Second wind is actually extremely good. It's basically a revive x2. So it's far more useful late game and can change the entire outcome of a fight. That's pretty much why it's banned. Because not everyone has it. Also you mentioned flames. Issue with thosr is again late game worthy. About to lose to a guy with the same health and you need to temporarily retreat. Boom you have some rank flames. So you really can't compare those weapons to gloom. It's much different. Not saying they should be banned. Just saying they are pretty op late game.

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  3. #73
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Alex and I have been talking. We notice that there are several comments about players simply not liking Central rules in general or saying "the rules are bad." However, there aren't many specifics being given on what exact rules players do not like nor suggestions on how to make the rules more favorable and overall balanced for all classes.

    The majority of the conversation in this thread has been back and forth over Champion Weapons. We already know how individuals feel about these weapons, but how do you guys feel about the rest of the rules as a whole? What specific changes can be made to improve Central PvP?


    Below you can find our current rules.

    Tournament and Ladder Rules



    Bans & Restrictions



    1. All doubloons are banned (even if competitions have "no rules").
    2. Scratch's 50% Buff - allowed for witches only
    3. Scratch's 100% Buff - banned
    4. Scratch's Purge - banned
    5. Spring and Fall Champion Weapons - banned
    6. First Mate's Boon - banned
    7. Blast of Discord - banned
    8. Overwatch 5 - banned
    9. Beastmaster Banner - Can be used if BOTH players agree to it. If not, it's banned.


    General Rules

    1. No fleeing. If you flee the duel, you lose. Fleeing is only acceptable if both parties agree to restart the duel.
    2. Each player must be prepared to begin their match within 20 minutes of the scheduled meet-up time. Any player not ready or not present after this 20 minutes time period will be at fault for a “no show”.
    3. Match results must be reported within thirty (30) minutes upon completion of the match.
    4. “Non-response” and Forfeits after the bracket is set will be considered an offense. In the event that there is a second offense, the player/team will be unable to participate in the tournaments next released.
    5. In the case of a “No Show”, the player/team will have a second chance to reschedule the match. A second "no show" for a match will be cause for disqualification and considered a forfeit.
    6. All rounds of a tournament will last 2 full weeks, including weekends. No extensions will be allowed. Matches not completed will be advanced at the TM's discretion.
    7. Pirates must be declared when a tournament is joined and may not be changed afterward.
    8. In the event that a rematch is required, it must be pre-approved by a Tournament Master.
    9. All rounds of the tournament are best 2 out of 3 duels. The finals of a tournament are the only exception as these are best 3 out of 5 duels.
    10. All matches will take place in the Spar Chamber.
    11. Is recommended that all contact between players is done through visitor messages. This is the fastest way for Tournament Masters to see who has attempted to complete their match or resolve any issues.
    12. If you disconnect in the middle of the duel, you lose unless you are able to come back and win.
    13. If an equipment change is made from the time of meeting and start of the duel, it must be announced to the opponent.


    -------------------------------------

    The players will switch sides between blue and red based on this order:
    R1: First one on the color prepared claims it no arguing
    R2: Switch Colors
    R3: Loser of R1 gets to pick there color

    -------------------------------------


    Ladder Rules

    1. Ladder matches are only ONE duel per challenge.
    2. Players must complete at least one ladder match per month to remain on the ladder.
    3. If you are removed from the ladder for any reason (cheating, inactivity, willingly left, etc), all your stats will be completely reset if you are above 1000 ELO. If you are below 1000, your stats will remain the same.
    4. It is suggested players use visitor messages to set up their match times and rules.
    5. Players can choose to either use Central Rules, No Rules or create their own rules for the ladder duels.
    6. Giving and receiving "free wins" on a ladder is considered cheating and will result in immediate removal from the ladder with all stats wiped clean.







  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Celestialmoon For This Useful Post:

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  5. #74
    sarcasticjoseph's Avatar
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    Post Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestialmoon View Post
    there aren't many specifics being given on what exact rules players do not like nor suggestions on how to make the rules more favorable and overall balanced for all
    Nurse quinn appears to be the only ban worthy thing in the game.

    *EDIT* idk why but this didn't go through so...

    All jokes aside. Overwatch 5 shouldn't be banned. Only class with issues against OVH 5 is buccaneers, but there is so many choices just to counter OVH 5
    Last edited by sarcasticjoseph; 09-17-2019 at 07:30 PM.

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  6. #75
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       ClockWork12 is offline Deck Swabber
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    I think the rules as we have them although not perfect are about as good as it gets. and would like them to stay that way > The champion weapons ban imo isn't a huge deal just something i thought that could be added to the current rules for even more balance in fairness .Everything really should stay the same and so it seems most players agree with that too is what i seen , others will speak for them selfs.
    Last edited by ClockWork12; 09-17-2019 at 08:13 PM.
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  7. #76
    quentin's Avatar
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    djyc21215 said: "I dont think anyone is going to disagree, that if a witchdoctor fights another class, and they both have the same skill level, the witchdoctor will lose the majority of the time just because witch hunter is so broken."

    mathew said:"Let me make one small, but important correction to that. The issue is with witch-doctor, not with ranged classes as a whole. The reason why no one wins with musket or privy (not a true ranged class, but their buffs make them close enough, so I digress) is merely that they are underplayed, especially in the upper echelons of players. We can't pretend that all non-buck and buckler players are at legitimate disadvantage."

    Based on our discussion and the comments above, it seems as if witch-doctors are at a disadvantage more so than other classes. I think that in order to make things more even, we can consider removing some of the restrictions that we have. Some suggestions:

    1) Allow 100% scratch buff for witch only
    2) Allow trees for witch only, but no banner
    3) Allow scratch purge (for all classes)

    I am not saying that we should allow ALL of these, but any of them could be helpful and would make things more fair. The reason I am saying this is that when we had "no rules", using all of the above made withcdoctors have too much of an advantage, but now with all of the restrictions, I think we went too far the other way. Since nobody seems to want to put restrictions on other classes like I had originally suggested, I think that we should consider adjusting our list of banned powers.
    Last edited by quentin; 09-17-2019 at 10:24 PM.



  8. #77
    Logan's Avatar
       Logan is offline Rookie
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestialmoon View Post
    Alex and I have been talking. We notice that there are several comments about players simply not liking Central rules in general or saying "the rules are bad." However, there aren't many specifics being given on what exact rules players do not like nor suggestions on how to make the rules more favorable and overall balanced for all classes.

    The majority of the conversation in this thread has been back and forth over Champion Weapons. We already know how individuals feel about these weapons, but how do you guys feel about the rest of the rules as a whole? What specific changes can be made to improve Central PvP?


    Below you can find our current rules.

    Tournament and Ladder Rules



    Bans & Restrictions



    1. All doubloons are banned (even if competitions have "no rules").
    2. Scratch's 50% Buff - allowed for witches only
    3. Scratch's 100% Buff - banned
    4. Scratch's Purge - banned
    5. Spring and Fall Champion Weapons - banned
    6. First Mate's Boon - banned
    7. Blast of Discord - banned
    8. Overwatch 5 - banned
    9. Beastmaster Banner - Can be used if BOTH players agree to it. If not, it's banned.


    General Rules

    1. No fleeing. If you flee the duel, you lose. Fleeing is only acceptable if both parties agree to restart the duel.
    2. Each player must be prepared to begin their match within 20 minutes of the scheduled meet-up time. Any player not ready or not present after this 20 minutes time period will be at fault for a “no show”.
    3. Match results must be reported within thirty (30) minutes upon completion of the match.
    4. “Non-response” and Forfeits after the bracket is set will be considered an offense. In the event that there is a second offense, the player/team will be unable to participate in the tournaments next released.
    5. In the case of a “No Show”, the player/team will have a second chance to reschedule the match. A second "no show" for a match will be cause for disqualification and considered a forfeit.
    6. All rounds of a tournament will last 2 full weeks, including weekends. No extensions will be allowed. Matches not completed will be advanced at the TM's discretion.
    7. Pirates must be declared when a tournament is joined and may not be changed afterward.
    8. In the event that a rematch is required, it must be pre-approved by a Tournament Master.
    9. All rounds of the tournament are best 2 out of 3 duels. The finals of a tournament are the only exception as these are best 3 out of 5 duels.
    10. All matches will take place in the Spar Chamber.
    11. Is recommended that all contact between players is done through visitor messages. This is the fastest way for Tournament Masters to see who has attempted to complete their match or resolve any issues.
    12. If you disconnect in the middle of the duel, you lose unless you are able to come back and win.
    13. If an equipment change is made from the time of meeting and start of the duel, it must be announced to the opponent.


    -------------------------------------

    The players will switch sides between blue and red based on this order:
    R1: First one on the color prepared claims it no arguing
    R2: Switch Colors
    R3: Loser of R1 gets to pick there color

    -------------------------------------


    Ladder Rules

    1. Ladder matches are only ONE duel per challenge.
    2. Players must complete at least one ladder match per month to remain on the ladder.
    3. If you are removed from the ladder for any reason (cheating, inactivity, willingly left, etc), all your stats will be completely reset if you are above 1000 ELO. If you are below 1000, your stats will remain the same.
    4. It is suggested players use visitor messages to set up their match times and rules.
    5. Players can choose to either use Central Rules, No Rules or create their own rules for the ladder duels.
    6. Giving and receiving "free wins" on a ladder is considered cheating and will result in immediate removal from the ladder with all stats wiped clean.
    Regarding the rules, Rules are all fine by me with it's current state. Only thing I'd want from you guys to consider is banning scorpions in Level 10 gear tours ONLY (See page 2 of the thread). The rest is fine by me.
    Logan - Blade Dancer - Swashbuckler - PvP Champion - Pirate101 Articles and Guides Writer for Final Bastion



  9. #78
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by quentin View Post
    djyc21215 said: "I dont think anyone is going to disagree, that if a witchdoctor fights another class, and they both have the same skill level, the witchdoctor will lose the majority of the time just because witch hunter is so broken."

    mathew said:"Let me make one small, but important correction to that. The issue is with witch-doctor, not with ranged classes as a whole. The reason why no one wins with musket or privy (not a true ranged class, but their buffs make them close enough, so I digress) is merely that they are underplayed, especially in the upper echelons of players. We can't pretend that all non-buck and buckler players are at legitimate disadvantage."

    Based on our discussion and the comments above, it seems as if witch-doctors are at a disadvantage more so than other classes. I think that in order to make things more even, we can consider removing some of the restrictions that we have. Some suggestions:

    1) Allow 100% scratch buff for witch only
    2) Allow trees for witch only, but no banner
    3) Allow scratch purge (for all classes)

    I am not saying that we should allow ALL of these, but any of them could be helpful and would make things more fair. The reason I am saying this is that when we had "no rules", using all of the above made withcdoctors have too much of an advantage, but now with all of the restrictions, I think we went too far the other way. Since nobody seems to want to put restrictions on other classes like I had originally suggested, I think that we should consider adjusting our list of banned powers.
    Trees? Absolutely not. They are the most degenerate single power in this game, by far. They're far too potent an offensive and defensive resource. To allow any class access to them, even a bad class, is not balanced PvP. I pray that the community rejects any proposal to allow those. 100% Scratch buff? No. I made my argument for why I was against that (for any class) in a previous post. I'm not going to rehash it here. Allowing Scratch purge for all classes is almost as bad an idea as allowing trees in my opinion. It gives classes like privy a massive resource advantage (ideas like run my shielded pirate behind Ratbeard or Emmett, then purge one of your 3-4 total shields off while keeping all my stat buffs and protections become very easy). It enables incredibly degenerate combos for swashbucklers and musketeers (again, I explained them all in a previous post).

    Yes, witch is bad. I don't think we should fix the problem my allowing witches to use any number of a bunch of degenerate toys that no one gets access to. I think any of these suggestions push the pendulum too far (and allowing purge on Scratch is just a nightmare for everyone) Imo, the broken stuff should either ALL be legal or NONE belegal, and I think it ALL being legal is an awful idea for creating balanced PvP. Personally, I think the impetus is on KI to actually fix witch hunter. I think these current rules are as close to fair for witch as we can get without KI stepping in to fix the mistakes that should have been fixed years ago.

    As for actual constructive feedback, here are my thoughts: I'm essentially fine with the rules as they are. The only thing that I think warrants a re-vote is the legality of the spring champ weapon, but even then, I'm not super opinionated on the issue and I don't think its being banned is a legitimate problem.



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  11. #79
    quentin's Avatar
       quentin is offline Deck Swabber
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathew View Post
    Yes, witch is bad. I don't think we should fix the problem my allowing witches to use any number of a bunch of degenerate toys that no one gets access to.

    Specifically regarding the scratch 100% spell buff, I do not think that this would be unfair if it was allowed for witch-doctors only. People seem to be concerned about powerful mournsongs or 3K absorbs. The long distance attacks can be avoided by temporarily getting out of the line of sight. Trying to get out of harm's way is something I always have to do as a witch-doctor, so I dont think it would be unfair for a melee pirate to have to do the same for a few turns. At close range, the spell boost would not be very effective due to witch-hunter anyway. And the 2K or 3K absorbs are not so powerful when you take into consideration the massive amount of damage that can be done in a single turn but a buckler (especially if they attack a the shield while hidden) and by a buccaneer with all their chains. The current 2K absorb is routinely eliminated in my matches in a single turn, so even if the 3K absorb would last for a few more hits, I dont think it would be unfair.

    I realize that others disagree, but from the witch-doctor's perspective I think this would actually help balance things out.



  12. #80
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    Re: Rule Change Dicussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by quentin View Post
    Specifically regarding the scratch 100% spell buff, I do not think that this would be unfair if it was allowed for witch-doctors only. People seem to be concerned about powerful mournsongs
    I think people are more concerned about a 100% buffed mournsong going super. We witches do critical allot.

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